[wp-docs] WordPress generally.

[Craig Hartel]

Scott,
I, for one, have always appreciated getting help from you, and from others, 
however I must disagree with you on a few points.

To not say anything, even if ignorant of an answer isn't always best. Podz and I 
both do the "we don't know, but we'll try to help you narrow the problem and 
since we know lots of people here, maybe we can help find the right person to 
answer the question." Most folks appreciate the idea that someone is there to 
help them in some way. Think of it as being an ambulance driver; you can't do 
the heart surgery, but you sure as hell can get them to the right place to see 
the people who can.

I agree that the #wordpress channel is as much a social place as anything. I'm 
guilty of that. However, it is publicly promoted on WordPress.org as a place to 
go to get answers. It should do that first, and the socializing should come 
second. The noise to information ratio is truly whacked out at this time.

It is easier to help out people in IRC, because it's real-time, and often there 
are others to help out too. Too bad it excludes a large number of people who 
don't know how to use IRC, or, if they do, they feel too noobish to ask 
questions in the midst of the geekfest.

All of the hacks, add-ons, plugins, and other fun stuff is of no use at all to a 
person who can't even log into their blog. The answer of "it's fixed in a 
nightly" isn't in fact, an answer. Many people aren't comfortable with the 
official release, never mind a potentially unstable version. Besides, if they 
can't log in using the official, stable release, do they have any confidence 
that a CVS/nightly version will work?

There are some fundamental issues and problems with WordPress. It's not good 
enough just to indicate that a future version will fix their problem. They want 
to blog now, not in the days/weeks/months ahead when the next stable release 
comes online.

If I may be so bold, I believe that Podz is bringing all of this forward because 
he truly wants to see WP survive and, indeed, thrive. I've seen instances where 
someone has cruised into the WP community, posted a plugin that took them all of 
about one hour to write, and people are falling over themselves to kiss the 
author's ass. Podz's contribution has been, and still is, far more valuable than 
those kind of contributors.

Both Podz and I appreciate the work of the coders in the community. We both wish 
that we could contribute in that way. However, we can't, so we take on the role 
of being community advocates. Let me assure you, the community is trying to be 
heard, but in many ways, their calls are falling on mostly deaf ears.

I respect Podz a lot for bringing this difficult issue to the fore. I respect 
him even more because I know that despite his frustration, you won't see him 
quit; you can visit the forums any day and see him doing what he can to help out 
the folks who just want to blog.

Craig.

Scott Merrill wrote:

> Podz said:
> 
>>Is it considered either 'uncool' or beneath some people to try and help
>>out in the forums ?
> 
> 
> I think it's generally harder to help out in the forums, and far less
> gratifying.  I used to help when I could, resolving problems when I knew
> how.
> 
> I think -- in some cases -- the lack of response is the same thing as
> saying "I don't know how to help."  I've never experienced the 'I can't
> log in!' problems, so I really can't offer too much help to those people. 
> Replying to the post with an 'I cannot help you' response is _worse_ than
> no response at all.  This happens in IRC, too.  Molly (www.molly.com)
> expressed her frustration at not getting questions answered... I likened
> it to the old saying "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say
> anything at all."  Replace "nice" with "helpful", and you'll see what I
> mean.
> 
> Further, I think a lot of people genuinely don't like to use the forums
> because they don't like miniBB.  Such is life.
> 
> 
>>If I log into irc, there are dozens of people there, Dozens. Yet how
>>many frequent the forums ? Hardly any.
> 
> 
> Because it's entertaining, and easy, to socialize while also doing
> whatever it is I need to do during the day.
> 
> It's often easier to help in IRC because I can ask pointed, direct
> questions and get immediate responses.
> 
> 
>>The simple fact is, all the plugins and functions are of no use
>>whatsoever to someone who has either been locked out of their blog, or
>>cannot get the thing to work in the first place.
> 
> 
> To a degree, you have a point. But for all the people writing plugins,
> WordPress works for them.  They're not experience those problems, so they
> spend their energy working on things that are interesting to them.
> 
> <snip>
> 
>>The simple fact is that too many people seem to want to leap aboard, be
>>associated, get the 'kudos' yet aren't prepared to go out of their way
>>hardly at all to answer questions from others.
> 
> 
> I think it goes a little beyond that, but you have a valid point.
> 
> 
>>And yes, given my contribution to WordPress, I am entitled to have an
>>equal voice. Me not being able to write PHP actually puts me closer to
>>the average blogger - and there is a lot of them that need help, like it
>>or not.
> 
> 
> As with most unorganized efforts, I think a lot of people are expecting
> "someone else" to step forward and help.  I know I'm guilty of that on a
> regular basis.
> 
> I'd suggest a dedicated "support team", but I don't know how useful that
> would be on an all-volunteer basis.  Interest will wane, real life will
> interfere, and energy will run low...
> 
> _______________________________________________
> docs mailing list
> docs at wordpress.org
> http://wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/docs_wordpress.org
> 
> 
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